Talk:Do the Ends Justify the Means?
Strategy I found that when dealing with Walther/Crawler if I summoned minions he would basicly ignore me, giving me all the time in the world to Cast maxed out spells at him, it only took one potion to distract him long enough (basicly the remaining creatures unsummoned themselves half a second before I finished him off), would this be something worth adding as a strategy for taking him down? 22:03, July 14, 2011 (UTC) :Adding that would also mean adding "Just roll and shoot with a powerful gun" or "Slow time and constant flourishes will bring him down"--Alpha Lycos 23:19, July 14, 2011 (UTC) Wings and Morality You're wrong about reverting the "Do the Ends Justify the Means" page; On the PC version, the wings you're granted only depends on your morality. If you're only playing on the console please don't spread misinformation. 10:21, August 5, 2012 (UTC) :On the console the wings also are dependant on your morality, nothing else. If you're good you get good wings. It is not misinformation.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 10:23, August 5, 2012 (UTC) That's why I specified "On the PC version." 10:37, August 5, 2012 (UTC) :What's the point if its both exactly the same? That would be like saying "In the PC version you can chose to be male or female" when it happens in both PC and console versions.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 11:19, August 5, 2012 (UTC) It's not specifying he same thing, it's specifying a difference. In the console version the wings only depend on your judgements. In the PC version it only depends on your morality. 11:28, August 5, 2012 (UTC) :Then why was my morality purely evil yet I did all good judgements and got the evil wings on the console? The wings are controlled only by the morality alignment. So there is no difference, hence why I removed it.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 11:30, August 5, 2012 (UTC) Then the page is wrong: "Note that the wings you receive depend entirely on your judgements, and not your current morality." 11:34, August 5, 2012 (UTC) :Sorry, I think that was me. I can't remember why I thought that was the case, but it was probably based on a discussion I had at some point with someone else. I came to the conclusion that the wings were fixed based on judgements and not morality, so if you were good and did the good decisions, you would get the good wings, but then if you did evil stuff your wings would stay good. But regardless, if this is actually not true, please feel free to remove it. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 11:57, August 5, 2012 (UTC) ::In my last playthrough, I did all the good judgements but just before going to get the wings/battle the crawler I withdrew everything in the treasury, resulting in my morality going to evil and ended up with the evil wings. I think the reason for the statement currently on the page is because each judgement alters morality anyway, so typically doing all the good judgements results in a good morality.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 12:01, August 5, 2012 (UTC) I will have to check this again but I'm pretty sure that in one of my last playthroughs on the PC version I made all evil judgements but had good mortality and still got evil wings. -- geekie beekie(Talk) (User Space) 18:49, August 5, 2012 (UTC) :XD :Definitely needs checking then. I'll mark the article [[:Category:Disputed articles|'disputed']]. I've also sectioned out this part of the talk page, and suggest that we perhaps move this section to Talk:Do the Ends Justify the Means? so others can comment on it. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 17:29, August 6, 2012 (UTC) ::Sounds like a good idea. Then we can get a consensus about it. It could just have been a rare fluke for me getting the wings how I did, but it could have been actual gameplay mechanics.--Lycos Devanos Drop me a line 20:20, August 6, 2012 (UTC) ::I would like to help resolve this dispute but I am not quite certain of what is disputed. I currently have a save at Day 121, with $33 million in Albion's treasury so it would be no problem taking out $7 million to become morally evil. He made nearly all of the "good" judgements, with 1 or 2 neutral ones, and can easily save all 6.5 million residents. What would I need to do and what should I observe to resolve this question?Garry Damrau(talk) 15:25, August 7, 2012 (UTC) :::The dispute is over what factors determine the alignment of the wings when they are received; whether it is based on your morality at the time of receiving the wings, or the benevolence/tyranny of your ruling. If you are happy to do that ↑↑, as you suggest, then that would provide one direct result for analysis. Thanks! --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 17:55, August 7, 2012 (UTC) :::Well I finally have one direct in-game (Xbox version) observation to report. The save I referred to with $33 million had already beaten the Crawler, so I needed to use another save who merely had $20 million saved up. Directly outside the throne room, on day 121, I removed $12 million from the kingdoms treasury driving my morality to the pits. That left $8 million. Then I entered the throne room to make my final 2 judgements as king. Since I had made all good or neutral judgements up to this point, and kept all of my promises, I of course built the fort in Aurora and preserved Mistpeak Valley. Before being draw up to get my wings from Theresa, I took out another $1 million to more than cover the good decisions I had just made. This left $6.65 million in the treasury to save all the citizens of Albion and Aurora. I was bestowed EVIL WINGS and sprouted horns as a reward. My statue on the Road to Rule has flaming red tattoos. Fighting the Shadows, Dark Minions, Sentinels, and finally the Crawler possessed Walter with black and red wings was a unique experience that everyone should do at least once. Thus for me morality is a definite ruling factor when determining what wings you earn. When interacting with the citizens or fighting enemies after donating $10 million back into the treasury, I still cannot do the expression "Extremely Good" or sprout good wings with a flourish attack. BUMMER :-( Garry Damrau(talk) 16:53, August 17, 2012 (UTC) :::After repairing my morality by donating $10 million gold to the treasury and also completing most if not all of the end game quests my good wings have returned. This may also be attributed to joining other games on-line and behaving in a morally good way. I would consider the dispute settled. Evil morality takes precedence over judgements and saving of citizens when considering what type of wings are awarded by Theresa.Garry Damrau(talk) 13:27, September 28, 2012 (UTC) ::::Thanks, Garry. That does seem to be the more common occurrence, so I've removed the dispute and changed the article content. If Beekie manages to repeat what she did before, then we will look into it again. --Enodoc(Talk) (User Space) 14:37, September 28, 2012 (UTC) What is the Exact Number as relating to Master Rifles? One playthrough, I only had 10 million (I always rule "benefically" and keep my oaths, if relevant) but my regular soldiers were carrying intricate heavy-barrelled rifles, almost machine gun like and futuristic. No soldiers were on the ground in the final battle against the Crawler. NOT ONE. What's the explanation? Another playthrough, I amassed 95 million, again benefic, and the regular Albion soldiery only carried normal-seeming rifles, perhaps slightly more refined (not sure). Visually, they did appear or seem to appear a grade above normal but I am not sure (obviously). And upsettingly, even with nearly 100 million in the treasury, the number of dead normal soldiers surrounding me was ridiculous. The last cut scene had at least three dead soldiers surrounding us as I said goodbye to Walter. Ridiculous. DOes anyone know the exact numbers for the regular Albion soldiery to be carrying superior weaponry (and interrelatedly, less importantly, the logic of how many dead soldiers one shall have in the final battle and the emotional scene with Walter)? IT SEEMS, to my experience, the superior weaponry accessed through "going above and beyond the call of duty" as relating to 6.5 million, is not singular and itself has subdivisions. Any one know the hard facts here?